not since sitting on the floor watching stagecoach at granpa evans' house with my brothers have i enjoyed a western so much.
unlike tombstone, which my high school buddies quoted to no end, and which was full of pointless revenge to the point of silliness, this movie is more subtle and less full of itself.
the story follows two stories that slowly enmesh. the first is the story of russell crowe's outlaw at the helm of a western style gang. crowe is really fun to watch in his smug, thoughtful portrayal of a western legend.
the second story follows the life of christian bale's rancher. he is an everyman whose farm is going under and his wife and eldest son are starting to lose faith in him.
the plot moves from slow and thought-provoking to fast paced, intense and back with ease. at times i had to stop to relax and let my muscles unwind and unclench.
ultimately, the compelling draw in the film for me was watching bale's character work through a morally ambiguous set of events with his 14 year old son standing by his side. time and again bale's boy's presence pushed him to be better and create an example that his son could live by...regardless the outcome.
the ending is one where the impulse to cry is tempered by the brutal action on the screen.
and speaking to the brutal action...using a higher clearplay filter setting will allow those put off by brutality to enjoy this relevant western...
63 comments:
oh look, paul's back. i will go watch this movie.
thanks stevie, nice to see you too.
do you remember watching stage coach at grandpa evans? i think we saw it quite a few times...that and 'north and south'. grandpa would record them off tv onto vhs tapes and keep them around...
i do remember north and south. i also remember watching that radio show, w_ _ _ in Cincinnati. I can't really remember the exact name.
paul: waiting for your comments in public over on my web log re the one.
stevie: check
if you're looking for a bracket to join...
my brother-in-law farcles started a bracket. to join:
add 'basketball bracket battle' to your igoogle homepage. then:
League name: risenmay
League password: applejuice
a guy from my ward started a yahoo bracket if you all want to join:
group name: 1stWard
group ID# is 155786
password is: byu
may the force be with byu...
Libby and Johnny, nice to see ya'll in the bracket pool!
You've made me want to see this movie. I've always thought Christian Bale looks like my brother Brigham.
christian should be honored..:)
and after having sampled 'no country for old men' i would have to say that i would place both juno and 3:10 to yuma ahead of 'no country' for picture of the year...
John Wayne rides again.
paul: you are crazy and have no taste in movies if you are placing juno ahead of 'no country'
I agree...me and Ivan both loved this movie!
stevie: 'no country' is powerful. it's thought-provoking. it's haunting. i loved the imagery. i loved the wide open spaces and stretches with no sound. each of the three main actors were brilliant. javier bardem's character was outstanding. i loved his scene with the lady in the trailer park where he asked the same question three times...very cool.
however, i enjoyed juno more. maybe it's not more hoity toity, but my gut reaction at the end of the day was that it's relevance and message were better. the viewing experience was more powerful for me.
there's a lady that works in the deli here in the va. i told her i saw 'no country over the weekend and she glanced up at me with a look. she offered the other movies she too felt outpaced 'no country'
in the mouth of two witnesses brother.
i know you love the cohens and i'm sorry to front you like this, but it's how i feel and i can't be untrue to myself here.
melissa: i'm glad you enjoyed the movie. i may have get amy in on this movie when she returns afterall. thank you for the comment. i think amy would enjoy it...
i'll tell you what stevie. maybe i'll watch it again when i've had more sleep. i was hold my eyelids open for several stretches because i hadn't had enough sleep for two nights running...
Paul... if you're having to hold your eyelids open, maybe you should just get some sleep and finish the movie later... :)
Paul fills the empty spaces in his time when I'm gone with catching up with movies I usually don't enjoy watching with him. But perhaps I'll like this one...
I'll post updates of our trip and adventures when there is the time/equipment to do so.. We're having a blast in Kentucky!
you're right amy, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices for good cinema...
paul: that's okay if you enjoyed juno more. i have no problem with that. but to place an objective qualification on the movie (3:10 and juno should receive best picture ahead of no country) is what i had a problem with.
'best picture in my own mind'
let it never be said that the academy is an objective measure of anything...
So, I was totally stoked to buy 3:10 to Yuma "On Demand" tonight and noticed it was "R". Am I wrong? Not meant to question your movie watching criteria...just curious. Also, I too loved Juno!! It was the first movie I went to by myself and decided I could maybe get used to doing that. I really enjoyed it's quick wit and humor and I loved the relationship between Juno and her dad and step mom.
yes jenni. it is rated r.
there are two ways around this fact.
either you have a clearplay dvd player and can edit the movie in comfort of your own home (which we do).
or, you may not believe that the pronouncement years ago regarding rated r movies during a speech to the youth is binding on all lds adults (which i do not).
there you have it.
i'm glad you enjoyed juno as well. i'm not sure if i mentioned it, but i too went to juno by myself first...come to think of it, that was the last time amy was out of town that i went...
Paul Frandsen: You better believe it! Children do as you do not as you say. (Except in your case in this case?) As Grandma Frandsen says to me: You are never too old for me to get out the green stick.
Jenni: That is why we gave a 'Clear Play' to each child for Christmas.
father: yes and no.
my children don't have sex. they don't watch innocent kids die at the hand of drunk drivers on saturday nights in the er. they don't pay taxes. they don't wrestle with the vagueries of inconsistent church history. in short, they aren't adults.
children are black and white thinkers and don't have the ability to assimilate grey until late teens or early 20's. some people never gain this ability.
there are powerful, moving and necessary stories to be told in a r-rated way. these stories are appropriate for an adult and not for a child. i'm not talking about tawdry and titillating stories. i'm talking about real, true, powerful stories that delve deep into the heart of humanity. these stories help you become a more empathic, understanding and good person.
true father, there is a potential problem with telling your kids not to watch and then watching yourself. they are black and white thinkers afterall and will have trouble seeing the subtleties i have described above.
so, i haven't worked out how (or if) i will approach this with my kids. one way is to use a clearplay filter as you have suggested. this allows them to maintain their black and white thinking--'i don't watch unedited r-rated movies and neither does dad'--while allowing for powerful drama into the home.
another solution is to choose carefully the relevant movies and go to a matinee when the kids are at school.
either way. r-rated movies are not in and of themselves a definite evil to be eschewed. in fact, many of the realist-type r-rated movies are less offensive to me than the titillating pg-13 trash that is peddled to today's teenage population. much of these 'teenage movies' are more pornographic with the actors clothes on than the r-rated movies that show nudity in an unprovocative way.
so there you have my series of thoughts on r-rated movies...i will hunker down now the battering you may choose to give me.
that being said.
i certainly have my parents to thank in-part for having taken a stand on r-rated movies with me. i watched maybe one in the first 2 decades of my life.
questions remain however. would my parents lives have been more full if certain movies had been a part of their human and growth experiences? would i have chosen to watch r-rated movies if as i discovered that they watched the occasional movie they had sat me down and started me down the path of understanding subtleties in life?
it's hard to know.
i'm not saying the answers are easy or straightforward...
We have been enjoying the version of a "Clean Flixs" store here. We watched the Kingdom and loved it. Did you see that one? Your thoughts?
Jan watched 3:10 - have to say I was caught up in a book. Maybe I'll rent it again.
Keep the movie reviews coming. We don't watch tv usually, so I never know what movies are good.
Did I read somewhere on here that you read the Twilight series?
hi paul.
i am with you on all your thinking here at the bottom about ratings.
this concept illuminates the issue for me: we are the only country who has this ratings system. what if i am a mormon in germany or peru? who rates my movies then?
besides, it's not as if the MPAA rating system is un-defiled here anyway. major production companies own most of the raters anyway, so it is silly that we should be morally constrained by their decisions.
christene: i have read one of the three in the twilight series. loved it. i will read the others when i get my hands on a copy.
i have not seen the kingdom...i'll have to check it out.
jimbo: yes the ratings are problematic. this is probably one reason why 'for the strength of youth' doesn't mention r-rated movies by name anymore.
Stephen....I meant to say in my last comment that it's WKRP in Cincinnati. I too watched that show.
It wasn't just said to the youth. In 1973 Robert L. Simpson of the 12 gave a talk "Pollution of the Mind." It's a great talk! I think that if rated R movies were not to be viewed in 1973...it should definitely apply in 2008. I recently gave a talk about helping your children make righteous decisions. The number one thing that I learned was that your children do as you do. For me this is a little like the young women being told time and again to dress modestly. I, as a mature adult, am not told as much how I should dress, (even though there are talks about that subject also), but I can guarantee that if I am dressing immodestly than my children will also dress immodestly.
I also agree that many PG-13 movies are very inappropriate and shouldn't be viewed. We have been counseled to be selective in our viewings of PG-13 movies.
I think that we can justify many things in this life and that's where our free agency comes in. I am not in any way saying that I am perfect. I have many faults. I just don't completely agree with you on this one.
jenni: i don't disagree that the tawdry and inappropriate should be avoided. however, i also think that current church leadership is allowing us more autonomy in deciding what is appropriate and what is not...meaning that we're being asked to assess each of our viewing/listening choices and evaluate its merit personally--not according to what the mpaa or anyone else tells us.
many know i am an orson scott card fan. i love his books. they are powerful and tell timely stories that pertain to our mormonness.
here is an article he wrote about the rating system as pertains to the passion of the christ (which was another powerful movie.)
here is another of his rants accompanied by a review of a western...ironic.
thank you for your thoughts jenni. i enjoy hearing what you have to say and won't be offended if you disagree with me, make fun of me or tell me off..:)
jimbo will particularly enjoy my orson links he lives in his ward and has most certainly heard these ideas...probably in sunday school or priesthood...:)
I knew that you wouldn't be offended and that you don't expect everyone to agree with....I feel the same way. I've never read what Orson Scott Card has to say...I'll check it out.
No battering. Your mother and I made the decision you children were more important that the latest, wonderful movie. And, that has proven true.
tracy.
you fit exactly what paul what saying in the black and white model of thought, as highlighted in your last comment. its not a black and white decision between your kids and movies. anyone would choose their kids first. clearly those aren't the only two choices in this dilemma. that's the point paul is making. (and provocatively).
i've said this before, i honestly respect that you can be so black and white. i thinks its very honorable and great.
Here is a quote from very recent church leadership:
Elder James E. Faust taught:
"Parental hypocrisy can make children cynical and unbelieving of what they are taught at home. For instance, when parents attend movies they forbid their children to see, parental credibility is diminished. If children are expected to be honest, parents must be honest. If children are expected to be virtuous, parents must be virtuous. If you expect your children to be honorable, you must be honorable." (Ensign Nov. 1990, p. 33)
Just thought someone should back up Tracy....I'm on the same wavelength.
Oh, but Petey. You need wisdom to go with your years. It is true the ethical questions explored in movies are not black and white. I deal with shades of gray every day as I counsel people who face life and death. But, the decision to stay away from a particular particle of life is black and white. A movie with an 'R' rating, while it might have redeeming value or expertly explore ethical questions, does not have the power to save as does obedience to the Great God of Heaven. If His Servants ask me not to attend an 'R' rated movie, I will not attend. That is black and white. You have a close relative who started down the slippery slope of watching 'R' rated movies for the artistic value who couldn't handle the result and has lost much in his life.
So, to all my children and close associates, you are worth more than any redeeming value a movie may have; because, in the long run, it cannot redeem.
Thanks, Jenni. May the Force be with you.
i've decided not to jump into this one. it's a personal choice. the issue is not decided from church leadership. i respect those who chose to watch; i respect those who chose not to watch.
Oh boy, I'm so not trying to make enemies here....I'm not saying that someone who chooses not to watch rated R movies is better than someone who does. I'm also not saying that the church makes our decisions for us. However, in providing the quote from Pres. Faust, I thought it was clear that we do have counsel from the church regarding this subject. They provide us with this counsel to help us in our life. They do not tell us we have to choose one way or the other. They give us counsel and warnings that can help guide us if we follow. But, where do we draw the line. There are so many debates and opinions out there. But when counseled from the apostles and ultimately the Lord it is very black and white. What it really comes down to is what the brethern teach us and our free agency. That is why we are here.
I think if at any time we are having to make excuses for the reasons why we are doing something than we may need to take a closer look at ourselves. Myself included!!
Stephen: By not jumping, you jumped. Luke-warm water--ugh.
dad: not luke warm. i have very solid opinions on the subject, and on how i conduct my life in relation to the subject. i'm just not making those known on the web log. i'm anything but luke warm on the subject.
jenni c.
first of all, i wasn't alive in 1973, so it doesn't really count for me. ;) but seriously, if it is such a hard and fast rule that i should base all of my movie viewing choices on, why can't you give a reference that isn't 35 years old. if its such an important "rule" than why isn't it mentioned year after year in conference? as per your 20 year old president faust quote: no one is going to argue that. but i guess since i'm single, i have a few more good R rated years ahead of me before i my unborn kids get cynical and leave the church.
uncle tracy.
i think you misunderstood my point. i know *why* you don't watch rated R movies. and i respect that.
my point was that you can't couch the argument in language like: i choose my kids over the latest movie. that frames the debate in either/or, black and white, or right and wrong. i don't believe this argument can be marginalized that way. that's all i'm saying. like i said before, i know why you don't watch them and i respect that.
Petey,
Great point. Based on your logic we shouldn't follow anything the prophets or apostles have taught us if it isn't as recent as 20 years ago. Let's throw away the scriptures since they are so old and obviously don't apply to us. Whether or not you watch rated R movies now or after you have children is up to you - we all have free agency to follow Heavenly Father's counsel when we want to. By the way, I didn't say it was important I just said that if we have to justify it then we need to take a better look at ourselves.
wow, i stepped away for a few hours and there has been quite the flurry of activity...
several points to make.
first point:
president faust's advice to practice what we preach is timely. if i ask my son not to look at pornography...i shouldn't. fair enough.
however, i ask him not to have sex...but i don't plan on giving that up.
here's were the transition from childhood to adulthood comes in. somewhere in the middle of adolescence to adulthood there come issues and subject matter and life events that adults are equipped to handle and adolescents aren't.
my point made earlier is relevant once again here...certain pg-13=pornographic. certain r-rated do not equal pornographic. the mpaa shouldn't be choosing by default what is and is not appropriate viewing.
also, 'His Servants' aren't currently forbidding r-rated movies. they haven't used the term r-rated for years. the times the term r-rated what used were in talks with the youth.
his servants have asked us to make informed and moral decisions regarding what we view. they come down hard on pornography. they are allowing us to make our own decisions in other regards...
my children have bedtimes and curfews and restricitions on internet that i do not have. there are reasons why they are slowly introduced to life's complexities.
with the uncle whose problems are often attributed to r-rated movies, i would say there were larger issues and problems at play. there is a world of difference between causation and correlation. if correlation=causation we could also say that this uncle went to church every week and that's why things went bad...
next point:
there is definitely a difference between statements made by general authorities 30 years ago and today. church doctrine in many ways is governed by what is repeated by current church leadership and what isn't. old 'doctrines' that aren't repeated slowly fade away. if we were bound to follow every church leader's statements through the years, we would be perpetrating racial atrocities in todays world. 30 years ago, elder mconckie's views on race were all the rage (less valiant in the pre-existence, curse of cain etc.--not pretty stuff)
in light of prior mistakes made by the brethren and former prophets, the larger lesson is that moral impetus for decisions falls to our own moral compass to a greater degree. treating the brethren as infallible is unfair to them and to us. taking the brethren's word on life-altering decisions is helpful to a point. putting their statements in context and then finding what is right by our own moral conscience, thorough study, logic etc., is--i think--what life is all about.
don't worry jenni, petey has a tough-skin. he doesn't mind a good 'discussion'.
stevie: such reticence...
HAPPY EASTER!
paul.
we haven't agreed much on the blogs as of late. but thank you for expanding and articulating my point well.
jenni c.
the reason i don't throw the book or mormon or any thing else that was written "before i was born," is b/c current leader continually counsel us to study the scriptures. i think that goes without saying. my point was that if this arbitary "R rating" rule were so hard and fast, why i haven't i ever heard it in all the years i've been attending, listening to, studying, and/or reading conference talks.
i don't need to expand much on how paul has already addressed that whole idea.
and thank goodness for that idea, or else we would have to tell our black and brown friends that they were less valiant in the pre-mortal life or my Catholic friends belong to the whore of all the earth that sits on many waters...
at the end of the day, it *is* a personal choice and not clearly defined as say marijuana, tobacco, or alcohol or other laws that do have repeated counsel framed in black and white options.
If the counsel given on R-rated movies is binding, then why does BYU show Glory, unedited, to all students in American Heritage. The counsel given by President Benson was obviously given to help members of the Church avoid, "Any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic."
Here is the quote from his talk.
"We counsel you, young men, not to pollute your minds with such degrading matter, for the mind through which this filth passes is never the same afterwards. Don't see R-rated movies or vulgar videos or participate in any entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic."
There are many R-rated movies that do not qualify as "degrading matter...or entertainment that is immoral, suggestive, or pornographic."
This is why BYU allows professors to show R-rated movies. Besides the movie Glory, there are many other movies that are R-rated that professors are allowed to show on campus as part of an educational experience.
I have no qualms with watching movies like Glory, Schindler's List and many other films in this genre (the genre of R-rated films not meant to be immoral and pollute the mind).
i take it that last comment was from jonny (not mel or aaron?)
to go one step further...
immoral entertainment, in my opinion, is not depiction of immorality per se. it is glorifying immorality and/or showing it out of context.
a beautiful example is anna karenina. her moral fall is stark and devastating. there is depiction of immorality, but the context and results are true-to-life.
that is why i feel the disney channel's teen-oriented shows are more detrimental to the soul than say 'the wire', '310 to yuma', 'shawshank redemption', 'gladiator', 'in the bedroom' and the list goes on of powerful, meaningful and important dramas that show true consequences...
jonny: basing personal behavior based on what byu allows/disallows is, I believe, not a good standard. byu does not set personal standards. the honor code is a possible interpretation of what personal standards should be; however, it is by no means binding and, in many cases, probably does more harm to some people than it does good.
that being said, i agree with you that there are many r-rated movies that are not immoral suggestive or pornographic.
it's nice to see people getting along this morning..:)
paul: it's strange to see you being so fair-minded and open in this conversation, but the second it turns to politics over on my web log, you pull out the tunnel-vision, and pick fights wherever you can find them. hmmmm...seems strange, right?
its b/c his friends read this weblog.
and he can't run this risk of offending someone in his own cyber living room.
So Paul, we've contemplated buying clearplay a dozen times. Does it really work and would you recommend it? Thanks!!
stephen and peter: you try to attach motives...i just tell it how it is.
kelli: i highly recommend it. i think it allows you to watch many new releases with your kids and avoid the awkward, raunchy asides in otherwise great movies.
the editing works well, it is not quite as smooth as cleanflicks editing, but it works really well. and it is customizable so you can pick and choose what categories will be edited. i highly recommend it. a+
kelli: it works well if you're okay with destroying the artistic intent of the director.
you wouldn't want to hurt any rich director's feelings. and you certainly wouldn't want to miss out on the subtle artistic touches in zoolander, austin powers, meet the parents ii, wedding crashers, or knocked up...all movies tastefully edited to a more palatable tone...
I'm perfectly fine with destroying their "art". :) As long as I don't have to say at the end of the movie- "I wish they wouldn't have put that one part in." So Cleanplay here we come. Thanks for the recommendation Paul.
Wow... look what happens on this here weblog when I go out of town...
Paul and I revisit this discussion over and over and over. We agree to a certain point. I, for one, don't feel the "necessity" of certain movie for it's influence on me or my humanity. If I miss a movie... I could really care less.
That being said, there have been many movies that Paul and I have watched at home with the comfort of our Clearplay filters that have provoked meaningful discussions which have altered my views on certain parts of life/humanity. I feel that I am better for them...
But I have lots of meaningful experiences in my life... without the Hollywood suppliment.
I am soooo glad we have the direction/counsel of the leadership of the church. And I know that following it allows us to have the light of goodness in our lives and the Spirit to help direct our lives--what could be more important??
And a Clearplay should be on everyone's "to buy" list. And don't forget to use it for your PG-13s (and even for language in PGs).
amy and i disagree on filter settings at times...some movies i would filter for kids, but prefer to get the whole story.
yet, for the most part, clearplay has been good to us.
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