if you have been following the recent discussion here on the blog, you may have heard whom i will be voting for. and you may have heard that i have joined the 'mormons for obama' camp...so i made up this t-shirt design and came very close to purchasing it myself...however, my better half put the brakes on. the t-shirt is $27.68 with an added cost for me to ship it to you. this is a 6 person minimum order.
however, if 12 people want shirts then the cost would drop to $17.38 per shirt. are you interested? do you have any friends that are interested? the date of the election is closing in, so let me know in the comments if you want one. if we can get the cost below $20.00 i think i'm in.
let me know!
59 comments:
oh matty...you know you want one :)
Puleeese! At least wait until the day of the election to sell your soul and your profession to the government.
hi pops :)
are you sure you can't get a moroni in the O?
also. where are you making these?
done and done. i will purchase it.
Yes, I would like one-BUT, I am afraid if I wore it I would be ostracized in my community and maybe not invited to the Relief Society activities. Just joking. Kind of.
peter: customink.com. moroni is a good idea, but would add another color and more to the cost. as it stands, this shirt would be less than the single color shirt for sale on obama's website.
peter: in the spirit of your 'money where your mouth is' comment--i'll sign you up for two? one for you and one for your significant other..:)
melissa: too true. too true. luckily, i don't have to worry about being invited to relief society events...
stevie: i knew you'd come through.
i updated the picture of the t-shirt with the correct size of the logo. the cost went up because i hadn't factored in the cost of the red, so the newest numbers on the front page reflect that cost.
if we do this, it would need to be through paypal? and probably with pre-paid orders of the quantity that would allow me to convince amy that i'm not blowing nearly $200 with the specter of no reimbursement from my partners in political crime:)?
you could make a white moroni silhouette in the O and not add any color (?)
don't consider this as my order placed. i still have to decide... it does look like a wonderful little t-shirt though.
Rather than 'Mormons for Obama,' how about 'Mobama?' :)
You were serious about the T-shirts? That would be a no for me. I'm really leaning for McCain and I have to say that Obama will have to do some fancy talking during the debate to get me to vote for him.
Paul, I do agree that something needs to happen with the health care system and I don't want socialized medicine to come in to play in the future. However, I hate that right now, I only receive 60% of my paycheck. It will only get MUCH worse with Obama in the lead. I totally agree with what your dad said about taxes. Also, if you are so worried about the middle class...please explain to me how Obama will make it better by taxing us more...our income will stay the same, but our taxes will be worse. How will that help?? (I really do want you to tell me. I would like to know what Obama thinks.)
good comment, melissa. mobama. love, uncle ron
jenni: how much do you make? will obama really take more of your money?
james send over your design for the obama shirt. hurry.
paul.
if i'm going to spend money for obama parif i'm gonna buy via the official website, so the profits go to obama. plus, when i buy his swag, i generally round up my purchase and donate even a little extra...
i.e. count me out. sorry. emily will have to answer for herself.
jenni: obama's immediate plan is to roll back the bush tax cuts for those making over $250,000. so taxes will not increase for 95%+ of americans.
the article i referenced showed that with democrats in office that overall american economy has fared better--and that real wages increased greater than the increase in taxes...even for the most wealthy.
so if your salary increases but at a pace less than the tax increases then it is a win/win. however, as stephen began mentioning...obama does not plan on raising most people's taxes across the country.
bushes tax cuts were poorly designed anyway. his tax cuts had a big price tag, but didn't affect the majority of americans (a $700 stimulus check is a pittance next to the millions returned to the oil and beer barons of the country who truly benefited.)
in addition, bush's tax cuts were coupled with massive spending increases (including farm and education pork)...not the least of which was the iraq war. war is expensive and with the iraqis poised to take over politically and militarily, we don't need mccain dreaming up ways to stay in the conflict so that more 'no-bid' contracts can be given to his big oil benefactors. we need to scale back and focus intensely on afghanistan. this is a scary region and one that could blow up in our face. we could scale the price of the war way back under obama and still wage a very effective war in afghanistan before it gets out of hand and russia decides to do to us what we did to them during the 80's. (not to mention russia repeating what they already did to us in vietnam...)
jenni: all this tax talk is the scare tactics of the republican party right now. the masses who they have chanting 'no new taxes' stand to endure the same low taxation they have seen under bush with the added benefit that historically their salaries will rise 1-2 percent more per year under obama than they have under all republicans over the last 50 years.
Ummm, let me think... No.
And would you change the wording to "I'm a Mormon for Obama?"
Speak for yourself, dude.
that's okay if you don't purchase one gabrielle.
now, it seems a bit picky to ask that the wording be changed (sounds like a liberal judge asking for the wording of 'domestic partnership' be changed to 'marriage')
regardless, i am not the only mormon supporting obama (in fact, there are quite a few--frandsen and non-frandsen alike--who read this blog--a small sample size indeed)
so there are two solutions: we could leave it as is and join the sizable group of mormons who support obama, or we could narrow the purvey of the shirt and name it 'frandsen mormons for obama '08'. has a nice ring to it right?
either way the 'i'm a mormon for obama' just doesn't sound convincing enough. the idea is implied in the fact the i and wearing the shirt and it doesn't allow for the broader appeal mormons in swing states to join an already established group of like-minded supporters.
i appreciate the input gabrielle :)
Jenni,
I don't know who you are but you must make ALOT if you only get 60% of your paycheck. Also, do you get any back when you do your tax returns? If so you need to add that back in. I like the shirts. If you can get the cost down to below 20 i might be in.
Darin
nice darin...that's the spirit.
darin: jenni is a great friend of mine whom i went to high school with
jenni: darin is my cousin:)
gabrielle: maybe we should make a different shirt for mccain supporters. it could be entitled: "Mormons for Liars." That way it would show support for Palin, McCain, and Romney.
Dear Paul: I am not a beer or oil baron. Bush's tax cuts helped me out a lot. It won't be long before you lament the fact that you are shouldering the tax burden for many people who pay little or no taxes. As Grandma Frandsen says, "Every one should pay for the privilege of living in America." It is inevitable the SS payroll tax will increase which is already at 15%. And, he has made it clear that the medicare tax will soon change and be a continuous tax which is another 1%. That is in addition to the 39% tax bracket he wants to raise the tax back up to. That doesn't count the state tax of 10%. Nor does it include the sales tax of 6.5% nor the property tax I pay each year. When I pay the electric bill, it includes a federal excise tax and a state energy tax and a local sales tax. Did I mention the sewer fee, the drain hook up fee or the utility impact fee that is present on each bill. Oh, let's see, I forgot the $10 fee to sign up for Hunter safety which goes to the state (the fee for the instructor is separate.) Oh, yes, wasn't that 50 cents per gallon tax I was paying when I filled up today. Have you been adding? What was the tax which was 'grievous' to be borne that was extracted by the Lamanite King? Seems we are there and then some. Oh, by the way, he may say $250,000. But, the graduated tax rate starts to increase by a little thing called the Alternative Minimum Tax somewhat after $100,000. And, between there and $250,000, your deductions are gradually removed until there is no deduction for children, church or community. Why do you think we spend billions on accountants and CPA's to do our taxes?
Redistribution of wealth is a dangerous road. It breeds mistrust, dishonesty and class warfare: Those who take feel entitled and those who are taken from feel stifled. Big government programs are not the keys to prosperity and peace.
tracy:
you spend billions on your accountant?
Paul:
I appreciate your insight, and the articles that you post. I also appreciate your dad's insight. Thank you everyone for your thoughts.
Darin:
I do receive some refund. I'm not sure how my husband has it all worked out.
peter: were you serious? your comment to pops sounded a bit inflammatory--rather than adding to the actual discussion. but, that's probably just the cost of getting to some of your more prescient comments.
pops: i'm not for more taxes. absolutely not. rather, i want someone who will look after the middle classes in a realistic and thoughtful way--while cutting wasteful spending and pork from the payrolls of the federal government.
i am certainly not pro-tax. i am also not saying i have become a democrat. i'm not sure what i am right now:)
barack has some backwards ideas when it comes to some elements of redistribution of wealth. the problem is that for all their talk, the republican party hasn't rolled back taxes much--especially for the majority of americans and they have just kept on spending. inept. inept.
i think giving another party a chance--especially one with their nominees head on straight is a great idea.
and palin. she is a piece of work. so clueless in her interview with CBS news. parroting the same lines over and over? she scares me. romeny as veep? sure. palin as veep? scary.
dad: i'm not quite sure what you are saying exactly. From what i've read, you're going to be taxed exactly the same whether obama or mccain wins. am i wrong? you definitely don't make enough to be taxed up to 39%. or do you?
Paul... I wonder when I last spent $27 on a t-shirt??? Oh, add the cost of shipping.
Oh, and then the cost of pimping your soul to the democrats.
Sure. Vote Obama. But campaigning for someone you "kind-of" feel "okay" about voting for... as you tell me over and over again? Kind of dishonest, if you ask me.
How about "Mormons who have reservations about Obama, but are still going to vote for him in this election" ??
The tax rates start to change at about $100,000. Obama's $250,000 tax rate is phony. People well below this amount are at the top tax bracket--as am I. I am one of the 5% of the nation who pay 95% of the taxes for the rest of the citizens.
dad please: under obama or mccain, your tax rate will be the same. please admit that. mccain isn't going to do anything different to the amt than obama. the only difference will be the capital gains tax, which will go from 15% to 20% if anything.
Sorry, Stephen. Not the case. Obama is strongly on record as wanting to double the capital gains tax. That will stifle investment in the business community. Obama is strongly on record of wanting to cut back the Bush tax cuts. They helped me a lot. Redistribution of wealth is not high on my list.
dad: what record are you looking at? is a move from 15% to 20% a doubling of the amount? I don't think so. Please look at the latest information before making untrue claims about mr. obama. obama is repealing the tax cuts for those above $250,000. he's lowering taxes for those underneath $200,000. let's not look at what helps individuals but at what helps the country as a whole. using terms like wealth redistribution is not helpful to the discussion. that invokes the old way of looking at things in a divisive, close-minded sort of way.
As far as the candidates' tax plans, Biden's Good Morning America statement that "we want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people" sounds pretty pro-tax (and class-baiting) to me.
As far as my Mormon vote, issues like this are deal breakers for me:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/19/obama-ad-lies-about-obamas-infanticide-vote/
This article is from a right-leaning site, but it's tough to argue with a voting record.
Not to be inflammatory, just my 2 cents...
I'll buy. :)
(email me at jcd1013 at gmail dot com and I'll give you my address.)
Your old med school pal,
Julia
Keep it "Mormons for Obama"! I know there are lots--far more than some of the commenters on this post would like to think.
I also must say, that I'm a Mormon for Obama even though Obama is to the RIGHT of how I lean politically. I'm a Dennis Kucinich Democrat, myself. (My daughter inadvertently wore her Obama button to Primary last Sunday. I hoped that there were many in agreement.)
writermama: who are you?
julia: hi! welcome to the blog. thanks for the order. with you stephen and me that makes three:) not quite enough for the bulk order, but i'll try a few more avenues before completely giving up.
writermama: hello:) i don't think i've met you either.
and i'm not sure i know who julie is?
stephen would be delighted to know that the visit of these three to the blog has a certain portent as their visits allowed this blog's total-visit tally to reach 15,444...
glaringly absent from the order is peter...
Oh dear... should I jump in? Great dialog. I've had people yell at me over any mention of the ills of Palin. (Don't get that.) This t-shirt idea & this discussion motivated me to mow the front lawn and put up my Obama yard sign. Tomorrow I'm going to wear my "Obama Mama" pin... bold moves in Utah County.
At C's new office one woman almost fainted when she heard he is a Democrat. (True.)
Stephen Hussein: Julie is my good pal in NYC!
I don't get the Democrat raising taxes argument... Anyone see what the Bush Clan is cooking up to solve Wall Street's woes? That isn't R or D -- it is crazy and we'll all be paying for it for years. If I recall, for all his foibles Clinton wasn't so hard on the budget.
What is Republican about the debt that is growing and growing and GROWING? The endless war? Failing schools? Failing infrastructure? How about the Hot, but inexperienced, negligent mother for VP nominee? Grandma Ream and Uncle Bud wouldn't recognize the party.
Palin, the mother and a member of AoG (a faith that routinely says that Mormons are going to rot in hell?) makes me so ill... that "hot chick" thing especially. That McSame chose her tells me what he thinks of the American people, on many levels. My fear is that he is right and people will vote for Her/them. Mo-bama's, Obama Mamas, Everyone who wants things to get better needs to speak up for Obama/Biden.
Back to the shirts: Would you like C and I to work on it tonight? (My graphic designer friend is one who yelled at me--Wacky republican. Saying all sorts of lies about Obama. I sent her (calmly) to factcheck.com and snopes.com)
Are you taking orders? I am forwarding this to my conservative friends, that means Mormon Democrats. You know the type: we believe in family (parents raising their own children), no debt, fair health care coverage, good education, diplomacy, a strong dollar.
~H Hussein
Count me in.
My email is scott.turley@gmail.com
h.
well spoken.
paul.
sorry, i'm not sold yet. remember, i like my proceeds for overpriced merch to go to the obama campaign. if you promise to overcharge everyone on the order an extra $5 and promise to donate the proceeds to barack's campaign by the next fundraising deadline (sept 30th at midnight), i'll buy two, one for me and one for emily.
i actually just got more pins and buttons in the mail yesterday from mr. obama.
petey: point well taken.
h: thank you for your thoughts. i enjoyed them.
petey: h mentioned possibly getting shirts from obama's site and then screening 'mormons for' on the top...
that would solve your problem of money going to the wrong place?
h: if you and c wanted to put something together i would buy into it :)
I'm still trying to figure out what is so Earth shattering about Obama's book. I'm 4 chapters in and haven't found anything new. Is there a crazy twist at the end or something like Che Guevarra's diary entry at the end of his Pan-America motorcycle trip? Please help me out on this one.
remember chris. i'm a registered republican. i have felt all along that obama has had a relatively free ride from the media.
i didn't trust that barack wasn't some stiffly leftist elitist who was trained at an ivy league hoity toity religion of the left out of touch wishy washy whatever.
obama thinks things through. he's pragmatic and intelligent. that's most of what i got from his book.
Definitely not!! Jared and I were just discussing if you've changed your mind or not. Guess not!! I'm sure he would love to discuss politics with you! I'm not really quite sure that Moroni would want to support either candidate.
Oh and I agree with Gabrielle about changing the wording. :)
Oops, guess I should've read all the comments before commenting myself. I have to say I love your comments Amy. They just make me smile. Way to keep him in line.
hi kelli :)
nice to hear from you!
i guess i won't order you a shirt, but i won't hold it against you.
unfortunately, convincing you to vote for barack won't mean quite as much as if we can convince jenni to vote for barack (swing state and all...)
you're right, jared and i need to go on a big long bike ride and talk politics.
Another thing, I noticed neither you nor Stephen commented on Johnny and Angela's comment about Obama's infanticide vote. I looked into it and cannot find anything to say it isn't true. So either one, you're both ignoring it because you don't have a way to defend his vote, or two you don't think it's true so you aren't wasting your time on commenting or three you agree with him. I for one couldn't vote for Obama knowing he thinks this is okay. Please help me out here and send me in the right direction about this issue.
A friend of mine also labeled Obama a "baby killer." This kind of mean name calling is fear mongering and it doesn't encourage real discussion. Does it mean Obama is going to run out in the streets and kill babies? I feel that he is FOR not making abortion ILlegal, or banning it as a rare, necessary and regrettable medical procedure. I feel this way too. I am Mormon.
I am TOTALLY against abortion, any kind for pretty much any reason. I believe that life starts at conception. Also, I know some women who have had them.
However, I feel the same way about alcohol... once it was made illegal people went to desperate extremes to get/make/buy/sell the stuff. Prohibition really didn't work and I feel that banning abortion only causes some women to take drastic measures with sick and evil people.
That is how I see Obama's/the Democratic Party's position. He is not For abortion, he is for the woman's choice and at times a doctor's decision. If my beautiful daughter were to be raped and couldn't bear the idea of carrying the baby, or that a pregnancy would somehow harm her, I don't know what I would do but I would hope it would be legal.
Banning procedures (no matter how gruesome) is difficult... It is interesting that Palin's view of abortion is even more restrictive than that of the LDS church.
Hey, speakin' of Palin, when are those durn randy youngsters gunna tie that knot anyways? (wink. wink.)
I agree with you, h, on your view of abortion, but to me the issue here is the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act that I am curious about. As one fellow blogger put it- "Obama supports abortion. To the point that he has voted to allow living, breathing babies to die from lack of care if they were the result of a failed abortion. I personally find this so foul, so disgusting, so incredibly inhuman that this alone would make me vote against Obama." I have to agree with him.
thank you to h for stepping in:)
when dealing with senators records the issue is so invariably murky, that i am always very wary of reading too much into a single vote.
here is an article from the new york times (i know, lame of me to turn to the ny times...but it is certainly not equally as left as are the rightist blogs you are quoting from kelli.)
if you prefer not to follow the link...here is the clincher from the article that is almost always in the fine print of senator's votes..." But the Illinois proposal always had a companion bill. The accompanying legislation, called the Induced Infant Liability Act, would have allowed legal action “on the child’s behalf for damages, including costs of care to preserve and protect the life, health and safety of the child, punitive damages, and costs and attorney’s fees, against a hospital, health care facility or health care provider who harms or neglects the child or fails to provide medical care to the child after the child’s birth.”
Groups that favor abortion rights say that bill would have introduced the possibility that doctors could be sued for failing to take extraordinary measures to save the lives of pre-viable infants, those born so prematurely that they could not possibly survive. As a result, they argue, it is disingenuous of anti-abortion organizations to claim that Mr. Obama was moving to quash only a narrow and innocuous definitional bill identical to federal law."
i have a hard time making any election a 'single issue' vote. while there may be issues that are deal breakers. this is an issue where i fall closer to h's opinion than palin's...
let me know what you think kelli:) i'm certainly open to any objections to my point here. i've certainly been called worse names by peter in threads gone-by so don't worry about offending me!
obama is on record about abortion as recently as friday found here
Yes, I agree there are "deal breakers" and I'm sure there are many opinions as to this issue. I guess what I'm having a hard time with is that even NARAL was for this act? Aren't they supposed to be the ultimate in pro-choice? I have 2 nephews that were born at 7 1/2 months and lived. This isn't just about pre-viable infants. I just can't see how if you know about something that is going on, and you have an opportunity to stop it, shouldn't you do something about it? And maybe this bill wasn't the best, he just seemed so heartless in his remarks about it, then on top of it all he lied about how he voted? Why do that? I'm not out here to offend you Paul, I am just trying to get your point of view. I've asked a few people out here about some things and I get responses like- Oh, well I don't follow politics, I just want someone good to run our country. Uh, okay. So I turn to your blog. Even if you are a little lefty now :). And it's not just this one vote that has me leaning to the right this time, it's just the icing on the cake.
kelly:
as to the infanticide business, there are three reasons barack voted against that bill while in the Illinois state senate:
1. The bill defined a fetus as a human being and therefore threatened the legality of abortion.
2. The bill provided no mechanism for the health of the mother.
3. There were already 2 laws on the books that made born-alive abortion illegal.
This was a power play by anti-abortion groups to try and make the issue even more polarized than it already is. barack is not in support of abortion. he is personally opposed to it. he will do things to lower the number of unwanted pregnancies and thus lower the total number of abortions.
What (another thing) I don't get is: what about EVERYthing else that the Bush/Chenney administration, plus 6 years of 100% pure Republican leadership, has left in its wake.
How can any thinking person vote for more of this with McSame and Palin (who said this week-end, "Our neighbors Afghanistan")?
My friend Marcie pointed out that if the Republicans really wanted to change the abortion policies of our country they had the chance when they controlled the White House, Congress and the Senate. Good point. Why continue to complain now?
kelli: not offended :)
i believe it is clear from my long response to you with clear evidence that the vote barack opposed was rigged. it contained language that could be used to sue mothers and doctors that decided enough was enough when a 'potentially viable' fetus codes on the table in front or you, clearly suffered massive oxygen debt in the brain and is 'dead' for all intents and purposes. too many times in the pediatric icu i see premature and infants who are brain dead yet kept alive by well meaning families for years--racking up $100,000's in debt and heartache while the child lays in the bed on a ventilator with infection after infection--using up the countries most powerful antibiotics and breeding resistance while healthy kids just hit by a car with real chance to live can't find an intensive care bed because these kids are boarding in the expensive beds using up the ventilators.
the talking points that obama 'lied' about this bill and that 'even naral' was for it are inflammatory in nature. they are prime fodder for hannity's type in stirring up people's emotions while not actually discussing the truth of the matter in a reasonable way.
this vote is such a non-issue that it makes me sad that with the grave dangers and threats facing the country right now, that right wing talk-radio pushes non-issues on hot-button issues in an attempt to polarize the electorate.
the bill was poison and manipulative.
i have no problem with obama skirting questions about this poisonous bill so as not to be caught by some anti-obama commentator in a sound bite that hannity can play 300 times over and over--saying the same thing to his 'intelligent' listeners over and over in different ways.
this is the right playing politics over terry schiavo all over again and it makes me ill...
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